Culture & Compliance Chronicles: How Cultural Understanding Empowers Compliance with Tal Freilich

At a glance: Click the links below to advance directly to the corresponding sections of the transcript:

• [01:10] About Tal
• [3:55] Tailoring Compliance Framework Based on Culture
• [9:05] Cultivating Trust and Confidence in Compliance
• [11:55] Learning from Failures
• [15:10] Speaking Up Across Cultures
• [22:15] Using AI, Technology and Data in Compliance Programs
• [32:15] Key Takeaways

Nitish Upadhyaya: Welcome back to the Culture & Compliance Chronicles, the podcast that gives you new perspectives on legal, compliance and regulatory challenges faced by organizations and individuals worldwide. The clue is in the title—culture is at the heart of everything. It’s the endlessly shifting patterns that govern our environment and behaviors. The magic is in amplifying certain patterns and dampening others. Let’s see if we can pique your curiosity, get you to challenge some of your perceptions and give you space to think differently about some of your own challenges. I’m Nitish Upadhyaya, and I’m joined by Richard Bistrong. Hi, Richard.

Richard Bistrong: Nitish, great to be back together again.

Nitish Upadhyaya: It’s great to be recording with you. We previously had a great episode with Letitia Adu-Ampoma, who talked a lot about cultural factors that influence everything from training to communications. I’m really excited about our new guest and the views that he’s going to bring in this particular space. Richard, who do we have?

[1:10] About Tal

Richard Bistrong: Our guest today is Tal Freilich. Tal is the vice president of group governance, risk and compliance (“GRC”) for Swiss-based DKSH, based in Bangkok. DKSH serves consumer goods, health care, performance materials and technology industry. It’s a pleasure to reunite with Tal here on the Culture & Compliance Chronicles podcast. I had the pleasure of meeting Tal for the first time at the SCCE’s European Compliance & Ethics Institute in Amsterdam.

Tal Freilich: Thank you, Richard. Thanks, Nitish. It’s definitely a pleasure being here. I really appreciate the opportunity to discuss some of the unique challenges we face in governance, risk and compliance at DKSH. Our company operates across highly diverse markets and keeps things dynamic, especially when dealing with cultural differences in the compliance world.

Nitish Upadhyaya: It sounds like you’ve got plenty for us, and before we turn to that discussion, let’s do a rapid-fire round to help the audience to get to know you a little bit better. Give us three things we should know about you.

Tal Freilich: The first thing is, I’m originally from Israel, and I’m based out of Thailand—been here for the last six years, so I have a personal connection with cross-cultural differences both in my life and my work. I have two sons. One of them is two years old. The other one is six years old. Both of them are the greatest achievements of my life. And the last thing is, I love food, both eating and cooking. The two things I like to talk about most in the world are compliance and food.

Nitish Upadhyaya: If we can get a buffet of solutions and ideas from you, sir, that would be a great achievement for us. Now, what are you curious about?

Tal Freilich: The thing that I find really curious now is AI and digital transformation, and to see how this will continue shaping compliance and what we do. There’s so much potential in using technology to monitor or to manage compliance risk more effectively. At DKSH, we do it a lot. We have a team of digital analysts that work with the data points, in order to give ourselves insights to make the information more accessible to our stakeholders and to do basically what we do better.

Nitish Upadhyaya: All of our guests on this podcast are incredible people, but they’re also very human and they can be surprised. So, what was the last thing that surprised you?

Tal Freilich: The world has changed so much after COVID. There’s a lot of discussions about going back to the office or staying at home, and for now, going back to the office every day seems so weird to us, but I still find it surprising how we all adapted to the new world after COVID.

[3:55] Tailoring Compliance Framework Based on Culture

Richard Bistrong: I think that also brings us into some of the other stress points, perhaps, that this hybrid work environment brings us into these multi-culture work environments. When I think about this issue in terms of a multi-culture and diverse workforce, I always go back to Erin Meyer and The Culture Map, which is just a wonderful book—we can put that in the show notes. She also recently wrote an article, “When Culture Doesn’t Translate,” and she talks about cultural disintegration, which just sounds like a rather scary term. She describes how, as companies internationalize and employees become more geographically dispersed—perhaps working in-office, perhaps working from home—they lose their shared assumptions and their shared norms. As we know, people in different countries react differently. They communicate differently. They make decisions differently. I’d love to hear your experience of this both in your compliance role and in the context of what DKSH does for its clients. How do you keep a common culture in a diverse world?

Tal Freilich: At DKSH, we experience culture integration and disintegration daily, because we operate in such varied markets. In my role, I’ve seen how cultural differences can sometimes lead to misalignment in compliance expectations, both from an internal-stakeholder perspective but also from our clients and our partners, those that we work with. An instance, a practice that’s completely acceptable in one market in one country may be viewed as noncompliant or even unethical in another. This is why it’s so important for us to tailor our compliance framework, and more importantly, our training, to the local audience. We invest heavily in understanding these nuances to ensure our compliance initiatives echo across all markets and are effective.

Richard Bistrong: When you have disintegration and misalignment, who are the stakeholders that help you realign and reintegrate?

Tal Freilich: The way it works at DKSH is that we have a corporate function called GRC that I’m leading. In this corporate function, my team members are experts in knowing how to tailor the message to the audience. I’m sometimes asked, “What does it mean to be a compliance professional?” And when I explain it, I find myself saying that we are dealing a lot with psychology, with what makes people do what they do and what makes people tick. My team, GRC, they are extremely diverse, so we have a team of people coming from Europe, Asia, Thailand, and they are experts in knowing how to tailor the message and how to deliver it effectively. Other than my team, GRC, we also go a lot to the markets themselves, to the countries, and we ask them, “We have this thing that we want to roll out or to implement: what will make this more efficient in your market in your country?” So, we do a dry run with them, because when you involve them in the process, it gives them some ownership and accountability, and it really helps drive the project further into completion.

Nitish Upadhyaya: Any stories of where that’s worked particularly well or something that might have surprised you?

Tal Freilich: Many, many, many, but I can give one example. We recently tried to launch a dawn raid procedure. A dawn raid procedure is how to handle surprise inspections/regulatory visits for many regulatory authorities. We came up with the process and how exactly to do it, and then when we shared it with our compliance community, we received an important comment from one of the markets that mentioned that they’re fine with the process, but the term “dawn raid” itself has a negative connotation in their country. It relates to surprise visits or raids by the police in the early 1970s and 1980s; so, they basically said, “The policy’s perfect, but if you try to roll it out in our market, it will receive a lot of negative feedback.” So, this is an example of how, when we involve the local markets, we understood it’s not the policy, it’s just the name. When you work in a diverse company like DKSH, where we operate in more than 40 countries across the world, you need to pay attention to these small things in order to be efficient.

[9:05] Cultivating Trust and Confidence in Compliance

Nitish Upadhyaya: What have you done to cultivate trust and confidence in people providing that sort of honest and open feedback to your team to try and shape the comms that then go back into their local jurisdictions? I think people often struggle with that. How do you build this network or community of stakeholders?

Tal Freilich: First of all, we engage in an open discussion with our stakeholders—we identify them in advance to make sure that we know exactly who to go to and in which situations. We form working groups or steering committees. Whenever we have a new project, a new guideline, a new system, a new platform, before we come up with the idea, we form this working group or steering committee, and then we discuss it. We try to include all the relevant functions together in the process—finance, HR, the business unit itself, supply chain, legal, internal audit, and we include everyone together. Then, basically, when we roll it out, the trust level is already very high because people are involved. People were part of the process, and it really helps us. It really sets us for success when we try to roll out these kinds of things. Again, it heavily relies on the diversity in my company, and it’s very important for us to know how we can cater to the needs of everyone that is involved in these discussions.

Nitish Upadhyaya: Have you seen it go wrong or things didn’t quite work out the way you wanted? I think we learn a lot from best practice, things that worked well, but sometimes, the things that stick in our heads are where it goes wrong.

Tal Freilich: I don’t think you can reach high levels in your career without failing. I don’t want to sound like a cliché: the best thing is to learn from your failures. One of my team members is a Muay Thai fighter—she’s not Thai, funnily enough, but she’s Dutch—and she’s my director head of enforcement. She’s in charge of investigations. She is in charge of risk. Highly professional. I often see how she deals with the challenges in her career as a professional athlete. She had a discussion in our DKSH leadership meeting, and she mentioned that “Learning from your failures and learning from your losses is even more important than learning from your wins.” So, yes, obviously I fail, but learning from these failures is what allows you to win and to succeed in the future. I have many examples, of course, for that.

[11:55] Learning from Failures

Nitish Upadhyaya: Does one stick out? Because I’d love to learn from that failure as well.

Tal Freilich: Throughout my career, I was primarily dealing with pharma or supporting pharma operations. And in one of my previous lives, I supported an implementation of interactions with a health care professionals’ platform. When you’re supporting pharma companies, it’s very important to have this platform and this process to ensure everything is captured and recorded obviously. I worked in an Israeli—but it was more of an American—company, and to be honest, we tried to do it the American way. “We have an idea. The idea is good. Let’s roll it out in all the markets. No doubt it will work.” And let me tell you the end of the story: it failed. Why did it fail? Because we didn’t go to the markets, and we didn’t understand how we should do it correctly.

When I joined DKSH, one of the first things I had done was to implement these kinds of platforms because we were doing everything manually, and I thought it’s a good idea to put everything on an online platform. It will help us to gain insights on our interactions and, of course, to gain credibility among our partners. In order to do so, again, as I said before, we formed a steering committee with members from each and every market. We understood how they interact with health care professionals, and what exactly they do first. Do they use a purchase order? Do they use an invoice? Do they use a contract? All of these things helped us build a very successful platform that is being used now and really helps us to gain the trust of our clients and partners, because they know everything is captured. You cannot pay a health care provider (“HCP”) without getting an approval before, without getting a purchase order, without getting an invoice. So, for me, it was learning from my mistakes, learning from my losses, learning from a time where a project didn’t work well, and setting myself up for success.

Richard Bistrong: There are so many actionable items in that, Tal, so thank you so much for sharing. I’m about halfway through Amy Edmondson’s latest book, Right Kind of Wrong: The Science of Failing Well, and she talks about intelligent failures where we can learn from mistakes so we’re less likely to repeat the same ones again. Your discussion about how words are so important really resonates, and I know that in some cultures, listening and not speaking might be interpreted as being disinterested, while in some, listening and not speaking could be interpreted as being polite and respectful. So, when we think of listening up and speaking up, how did these potential cultural differences get taken into account when coming up with ethics and compliance messages and awareness around speaking up? I know that’s really a stubborn point for a lot of organizations.

[15:10] Speaking Up Across Cultures

Tal Freilich: Being an Israeli living in Thailand and working in Thailand, which culturally couldn’t be more opposite to where I’m coming from, I can give an example. Thailand has a very distinct business culture where, I would say, hierarchy and respect for authority are a key. But the rest of Asia-Pacific (“APAC”) region is incredibly diverse—it’s ranging from highly hierarchical cultures to maybe more equal ones. At DKSH, I would say we emphasize local engagement. When we roll out new compliance initiatives, we work closely with our compliance officers to ensure the messaging is culturally appropriate. This approach has helped us tailor our compliance program while still maintaining a global standard. I gave the dawn raid example before, but for us, it’s very important specifically when we roll out a Speak Up program or campaign to understand what will make people speak up in these markets. I’ll give an example of Japan, where losing face is a very big concept. People don’t want to talk about someone else, so we need to maintain anonymity, and we need to make sure that they can give this report in a confidential manner. On the other hand, again, in my previous career, I worked in more American companies where the culture of speaking up is more developed, I would say, and speaking up was part of the culture.

You asked me: How do we make sure that people are encouraged to speak up? I think it’s more about how to tailor the message and how to explain to our stakeholders why speaking up is important, and what kind of changes we can get from these kinds of reports. Showing these success stories, this is really what moves the needle, and this is really what makes our stakeholders understand, “Okay, speaking up is a good thing. It can help my organization. It can help my organization change and maybe come up with new ideas on how to make things better.”

Richard Bistrong: Picking down one level—particularly in Asia, which you’ve used as an example where there’s a very strong respect for hierarchy and seniority, not losing face—when it comes to speak up initiatives or even investigations, have you found any best practices which encourage people to be more comfortable using their voice?

Tal Freilich: Definitely. First of all, being attentive to the audience and attentive to the crowd—feel the room. I try to make sure that everyone gets their two seconds or two minutes, and everybody has a chance to speak and say what they want to say. It’s not very easy, because as you said, these cultures, they need to be prepared. Some of the people, they need to be prepared in advance. They need to make sure they have all the data before. They need to make sure that they have all the information. So, I really try, first of all, to prepare, to send it out in advance, to make sure everybody has all the information, but also, during the meetings themselves, I make sure that everybody gets a chance to speak up. Even if I’m calling someone out and I’m saying, “Vietnam team, what do you think about what we’re saying?” This really helps, bringing them into the discussion.

The second thing I would like to say is, specifically, when it comes to investigations, it’s very important to use local language and to use people that understand how to reach out to these whistleblowers or to these reporters. Again, there’s no one size fits all—there’s no, “This is the way we’re going to do it and it’s going to work everywhere.” We use our local compliance officers in these kinds of investigations under the leadership of my team, of course, but we utilize their experience in discussions with local employees in the local markets, because this really helps getting the information we need from these reporters.

Richard Bistrong: Brilliant. You also touch on a theme that Erin speaks to in her book, that in some cultures, it’s what happens before the meeting that will determine the success of the meeting. So, as you shared, we might think, “Sending out an agenda, not such a big deal.” In some cultures, that’s a very big deal, and maybe having a conversation or two with people by the water cooler or the espresso machine beforehand that you’re looking forward to hearing from them and to give them the confidence before you get to that meeting room can be so critical. These cultural threads that you’re addressing are just so critical. And thank you for sharing your personal experience.

Tal Freilich: We talked about working from home before and the hybrid work and how the world has changed, but you cannot replace a face-to-face interaction, specifically in what we do in compliance—this is something you cannot replace. And you mentioned this water cooler chat. I try to visit at least the biggest markets we have at DKSH at least once a year and to attend a leadership meeting or a country leadership meeting, because these kinds of small conversations you have on the way to the elevator or to coffee are the ones that make the difference—this is how you get to know these people. Again, when you are in a culturally diverse organization like DKSH, not everyone is the same—not everybody will speak up. Some people will just stay silent, and you will see it as an acceptance, but it’s not an acceptance. It’s just they are not feeling comfortable to speak up, and the five minutes you spend with them on the way to the elevator, that’s exactly when they open up, so that is unreplaceable. I recommend every compliance professional to go and visit the markets, go to the distribution centers, visit the salespeople—go to all the levels and meet the people, meet your clients, and understand them as much as you can, because this will really help building the trust between yourself and them.

Nitish Upadhyaya: That resonates so much with me and what we hear, because it’s a way of understanding culture. I don’t mean local culture necessarily—it’s about the culture of risk, the culture of inclusion, all of the different subcultures that you might have in the organization. I love how simple it is. Just talk to people. Be thoughtful. Put some effort in and have the time to have human interactions. I think going from one sense of human interactions to something you mentioned at the start of the podcast, the interest in AI and technology, where do you see this come up in your work? Is it changing the dynamic of the human interactions that you’re having? And then, where is it creating efficiencies or risks?

[22:15] Using AI, Technology and Data in Compliance Programs

Tal Freilich: I think that’s the million-dollar question now, and every compliance officer, anyone who manages a compliance department or trying to implement a compliance program is trying to think about, “How can we get the power of AI into helping us and help our program to become more effective?” I can share what we do at DKSH. First of all, we are now trying to create a chatbot, an AI tool, that will be the first line. We’re uploading all of our policies and procedures into this tool, and then people can ask a question and get an answer from the policy. But it does not replace common sense, because you cannot teach AI common sense yet, at least from the tools that I have seen. So, in my opinion, you will always need a compliance officer to look at the answer and see if it’s a good answer. At the end of the day, compliance, a majority of the time, it’s not black and white—there’s a lot of common sense into that. It’s thinking into the situation, evaluating the risks and seeing what’s the best interest of your organization, and as far as I’ve seen so far, this cannot be replaced.

The second thing that we’re doing, which we can really see as something that helps us make our compliance program more efficient, is we use AI within our background. An example, we take all of the transactions that we have, and we are trying to create an AI platform or platform that helps us learn from these transactions to spot anomalies. So, instead of doing the regular 10% monitoring of activities, like every compliance officer needs to do every year, this tool helps us look at more than 10% of these activities and transactions and really helps us get valuable information from the data that we have. Data is all around us—it surrounds us. There are many, many data points that we can use—we just need to learn from it. We need to see how we take all this data and efficiently make it into something we can use. At DKSH, so far, we’ve been doing it very good.

Nitish Upadhyaya: Tell me more about that. What sort of mindset does your team have as it’s approaching data and an ever-growing mass of data?

Tal Freilich: When I recruit a new compliance professional to my team, GRC, I talk about three very important things. First of all, understanding that compliance at DKSH is how to follow a selling proposition. So, they need to understand that when they are here and they are part of my team, they have a lot of importance at DKSH on the group level, because what we do here differentiates us from our competitors. The second thing—which goes back to me talking about going to the markets and visits—I talk about having a high level of emotional intelligence (“EQ”), and that is super important as a compliance professional. I want you to go and talk to as many people as you can, and I want you to build that trust, because your door needs to be open all the time. They need to know that in any given time, they can reach out to you and ask you any question. And the third one—to answer the question that you asked—I feel that compliance and data go together even more than what it has in the past. Every team member on my team has to show me how he or she uses this data in the workstream in what they do.

We have a big team of data analysts. We invest a lot of efforts in harnessing this data and taking this data to help us in what we do. If it’s investigations, instead of saying “I want to save time” to my team members and to my stakeholders, instead of looking at transactions and doing a forensic review, I want them to see if there’s a better way to do it by utilizing the data that we have. If it’s things that are basic, like, conflicts of interest—instead of signing a regular form, which is just a piece of paper that you scan later and put it online, and you cannot learn anything from it because it’s a dumb document, you cannot get any insights from it. See how you can take this, put it in a platform and learn from it. And let HR learn from it. Learn it from a compliance perspective. Have every function in your organization learn from the data points that you bring.

Nitish Upadhyaya: How are you getting data that helps you see patterns of behavior, for example, or things you need to do? Walk us through the end-to-end process behind that philosophy being applied in practice.

Tal Freilich: If I go back to interactions with health care professionals, and the platform that we implemented at DKSH three years ago, everything started from a data gap. When I joined, I asked, “How do you know how much money you are going to pay an HCP?” Then, I would go into one team sitting on the same floor, and one of them would pay X amount of money and the other one would pay the same HCP 2X of that money. So, when we implemented our platform for interaction with HCPs, one of my selling propositions to the stakeholders—those that had to pay for this platform—was that “From now on, I can show you how much you guys are paying, and I can align it.” And after a year or two years, I actually show them how they save money, because now they have a process, so everything is captured. Now, in a click of a button, we get everything into Power BI, you have a dashboard, and you can see exactly how much we’re paying to which client in which therapeutic area in which periods of the year. When are we exceeding our thresholds? How exactly are we exceeding the thresholds, and in which circumstances? We control these exceptions, and we control how many of them are being given, and most importantly, we reduce them tremendously because now, everything is transparent, so it’s very easy to catch it up.

Nitish Upadhyaya: I really like that example. Thank you so much for taking the theory and turning it into something practical.

Richard Bistrong: We’ve seen this time and time again where the compliance and the GRC team is taking the lead on harnessing data, and then, the business units and HR are, like, “This is really interesting and actionable data. Do you mind if we use it as well in what we do?” So, once again, it’s an example of how the business can gain an appreciation for how data can help them make more informed and more profitable decisions.

Tal Freilich: I would add another example here of something that we recently launched at DKSH. We came up with an innovative risk-based third-party risk management approach. So, instead of one size fits all of conducting due diligence—a pain point for every organization, because it takes time, it takes money, it requires a lot of efforts from the compliance officers—instead of doing the due diligence questionnaire to all of our third parties and going through the process that usually takes between two to three months, we came up with a risk-based approach, an algorithm we’ve built that we are factoring data that exists everywhere online. It’s open-source investigation, everything exists there, and then, we factor all these parameters into a grid. At the end of the day, this grid gives us the level of risk we should look into, or we should give to the interaction. So, instead of two to three months, I would say, 85% of our interactions with third parties, we are now reducing it to three to five days. This is an example of how you bring great value to the organization, how you’re making risk-based decisions, which is very important as part of our risk-based approach, and this is how, to your point, Nitish, before, we actually create a value to the organization. This is something we rolled out last year, in 2024, and this is something that we are seeing that is actually succeeding, because we are teaching the organization to take a risk-based decision. When they go through this process and they get a high-risk score, they understand that maybe it’s better to go with the low risk, because the risk on the organization is lower, and it’s easier for them. You give them the carrots there because it’s shorter for them to do it, and it’s educating them to take a decision that is based on risk.

Nitish Upadhyaya: That idea of supporting decision-making in time, I think, is really crucial. We’ve had a few people talk about it on the podcast, and I think that is definitely a lesson to carry forward. Tal, I’m going to come back to you in a minute and ask you for one more tip that you would give to the compliance officers, the audit teams, the legal teams who are listening to this, about one of your approaches that has worked, whether it’s in the investigation space or otherwise. But before I do, I’ll ask Richard for his key takeaway from our recording today.

[32:15] Key Takeaways

Richard Bistrong: This has been such an informative discussion. Number one, be on the lookout for dumb documents. I like that, because these are things that you’re doing just as a matter of process but you’re not learning anything from, so I think that’s really a great thing to be on the lookout for. But on the positive side, this whole category of building trust, bringing in diverse opinions, forming working groups, having an open feedback loop to stay close to the business, I really like which you shared, Tal, is bring people in early. When people are a part of the process, they’re more likely to buy into the process. I love the learning from mistakes. And staying close to your stakeholders is so invaluable. Thank you for sharing your experiences.

Tal Freilich: It’s my pleasure, Richard. Nitish, to your question, I think the best tip, and that’s something one of my greatest mentors in the industry taught me once, is compliance is usually disguised as a supporting function, so we support the business. And this mentor told me, “Supporting the business will never get us far. We need to enable the business. So, we are not a supporting function—we’re an enabling function. We are here to help them make their decision the right way, the ethical way, the risk-based approach way, but we are here to enable the business operations, and that’s our role in compliance.” Once you understand that, you go from just telling people what to do into understanding what they do, why they do it and for what reason, and then see how you can help them achieving their goals.

Nitish Upadhyaya: On that incredible menu of tips and tricks and practical experience, that really is the cherry on top. What a wonderful way to move through to the end of the podcast: a call to action, a call to arms, and a call to confidence, I think, for compliance and audit officers everywhere to show the value-add that they bring to the business. Now, before you leave us, continuing on in this theme of food, I would love to know, what’s next on your list to try?

Tal Freilich: I don’t think there’s anything I haven’t tried yet to be completely honest. Food-wise, I eat everything. But if you say what’s my next goal when it comes to food, I really want to know how to cook Thai food like a real Thai person. So, that’s one of my goals in living in Thailand and being such a foodie.

Nitish Upadhyaya: I’m excited to hear your adventures and your journey on that path, and maybe one day I’ll have the pleasure of you being able to cook for me and trying out if you match up to expectations.

Tal Freilich: My pleasure.

Nitish Upadhyaya: Thank you so much for coming along, and it really has been a joy to have you on board. Thank you for sharing the tips and for being so open. Can you tell the audience how they can connect with you or find out more about your work?

Tal Freilich: You can always connect with me on LinkedIn. I’m always happy to meet other compliance professionals and people that are excited about compliance the way I am. You can always reach out to our DKSH website where you can have some more information about our compliance program. And if you’re ever in Bangkok, feel free to send me a message and I’ll be more than happy to meet for a cup of coffee and have further discussions about compliance.

Nitish Upadhyaya: We will look forward to dining with you at some stage. Thanks again.

Tal Freilich: My pleasure. Thanks, Nitish. Thanks, Richard, for inviting me.

Nitish Upadhyaya: Thank you all for tuning in to the latest episode in our Culture & Compliance Chronicles series. For more information about our series and any of the ideas discussed today, take a look at the links in our show notes. You can also subscribe to the series wherever you regularly listen to podcasts, including on Apple and Spotify. Amanda, Richard and I will be back very soon for our next chapter. If you have topics you’d like us to cover or novel perspectives you want everyone else to hear about, get in touch. Thanks again for listening. Have a wonderful day and stay curious.

Show Notes:

• The Culture Map: Breaking Through the Invisible Boundaries of Global Business (Meyer): https://www.amazon.com/Culture-Map-Breaking-Invisible-Boundaries/dp/1610392507
• “When Culture Doesn’t Translate,” Harvard Business Review (Meyer): https://hbr.org/2015/10/when-culture-doesnt-translate
• Tal Freilich: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tal-freilich
• DKSH: https://www.dksh.com